P to the 35

Now, there is plenty of finality in the word final, but this might be more of a sign off. Guitar Ted has been putting a set of our P35's through the ringer since the beginning of the year and has given us and the world his thoughts throughout the process [see the On Test, Out of the Box, & Midterm reports]. G-Ted stamp of approval? In this final review, we think so!

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims: Final Review

August 9th, 2010 by Guitar Ted

The P-35 rim, introduced last year, was the second widely available rim in the 30 plus millimeter range. How would it hold up to regular mountain biking. How would it play with your tires? Is it a worthy choice for average trail riding 29″er freaks? These are the questions I had going into this review. Now, after several months of riding everything from packed snow machine trails to swampy, muddy track, to dry, rooty single track, here are my final observations on these rims/wheels. Also, as a bonus, I’ll cover the new Velocity rim tape that turns any set of P-35’s to tubeless compatible wheels. If you have missed the last Mid-Term Report, you can click this link to read that.

P-35 rim on the front here of this Big Mama full suspension bike.

Wide Track: The P-35’s claim to fame is its reasonable weight plus its width. The width spreads out a 29″er tire, and is also said to give the tire better support. One thing needs to be considered though when looking at a 35mm wide rim. Your tires may actually end up being worse performers on a P-35 than they are on narrower rims. Why? It is because the tread area on some tires actually flattens out when the beads are spaced further apart. This flattening of the tread area may “close up” the tread, making your tires skittish, or loose. Generally, I would suggest using wider tires, over 2.3″, on this class rim due to this phenomenon, but experimentation is always good.

The wider rims also may cause issues with tire clearance in some frames. If you set these up with 2.4″ers, it will certainly cause you to use up most, if not all, your chain stay clearance. Many older 29″er frames were not made with these rims and 2.4″ tires in mind. For instance, the Ardents on the P-35’s I had were nearly 62mm wide at the casing. That sort of casing width isn’t going to leave a lot of “breathing room” in a lot of frames out there!

The Wheel Set: Now for a word on the wheels specifically, which are built on Velocity branded hubs. These wheels were trouble free during the entire testing period. They stayed true, and to my surprise, the wheels did not develop fouled bearings despite my best efforts to get them contaminated. The bearings are very smooth to this day, and I wouldn’t hesitate to have Velocity build me a set again. The tensions were great, and I have no complaints on the build. The only thing I would suggest is for Velocity U.S.A. to consider developing a front hub that is convertible from 9mm QR to 15QR, to 20mm through axle. This would make buying a hub from Velocity much more appealing, and make the hub a versatile one that could go from bike to bike with a quick end cap change.

All you need to set up a pair of P-35’s to be tubeless compatible.

Velocity Velotape: The Velotape came out after we received the wheel set, so Velocity sent the Velotape out after our Mid-Term Update. I set up the rims after removing the tire and make shift rim strip I used previously. Let me tell you, the Velotape is a far more elegant solution! I cleaned the inner rim cavity thoroughly, and then I was all set.

It is important to slightly stretch the tape as you apply it to make sure you minimize any air pockets after application. (It is kind of like applying a decal, if that makes sense.) The inner cavity of the P-35 is “U” shaped, so following up with some pressure from your index finger where the tape meets the rim is advisable. (See image above)

After overlapping the tape at the rim seam, according to the instructions, you pierce a hole at the valve drilling to allow installation of the supplied valve stem. (Make sure you pierce the valve stem drilling and not a spoke hole!)

When inserting the stem, make sure it is seated all the way in, as shown here.

The valve stem nut comes with a supplied washer that goes against the rim as shown. Then you are ready to install a tire, add sealant, and air it up! I used the Ardent 2.4″er again, and the process was seamless. So far, the system has proven very trail worthy. (By the way, the valve stem does have a removable core.)

Conclusions: The Velocity P-35 rim succeeds in that it is a trail worthy rim at a reasonable weight and price. It comes in many colors, and is easily found from many on-line and local bike shops. The new Velotape adds extra value to these rims, but it is an extra purchase on top of the rims, so be aware of that. The rims seem to be of average stiffness and would be best suited to XC to light AM uses. Front single speed applications, and anywhere a rider sees that a wider footprint on a 29″er would be advantageous would be places to look at using a P-35 rim. The weight is very reasonable for the width, but even so, this isn’t an XC racers rim. This rim is for the everyday 29″er rider that wants to maximize the performance of the wider tires on the market for 29′ers.

The wheel build gets an A+. I had zero issues with it, and the tensions were good and remained so during the entire test. The hubs were also a highlight, and for the money, they were a great value. I didn’t necessarily care for the thread on free wheel compatibility or the fact that the 20mm through axle is not convertible to other standards now available. If you don’t want to fuss with building up a set of P-35’s, have your bike shop do it through Velocity U.S.A. and they will be a great wheel set, if this one we tested is anything to go by. They do have standard geared cassette hubs for geared use which can be set up with spacers for single speed use.

The Velotape is an easy to apply solution to get the P-35’s going as a tubeless wheel set. I had no issues with setting up the tires I was using as tubeless on this system and the valve stems and tape seem to be top notch quality stuff. I’ve seen much worse!

Finally, the Velocity P-35 is a welcomed addition to the choices for a 29″er rider in terms of rims and wheels. The colors available are unmatched by other companies, the quality is consistent, and the rims themselves are workhorse pieces that should serve most riders well, save chunk riders and anyone pushing the limits of 29″er wheels. These folks should look elsewhere for rims, but for a wide swath of the 29″er riding public that is wanting a wide footprint for their rubber, the P-35 rim from Velocity U.S.A. should be a serious consideration.

Note: Twenty Nine Inches received this wheel set at no charge for test and review. We are not being bribed or paid for the review here and we will strive to give our honest opinions throughout.

_

The P35 is available in these sizes and drillings:

26" [559], 650b, 700c/29er in 32 and 36 hole drillings in these colors:

Black, Silver, White, Electric Red, and Antifreeze Green

* Lumberjack Plaid and Teak P35's are available in 26" and 700c sizes with 32 and 36 hole drillings

Why Tubeless?

On Friday, tried as I might to get Jacobi to do a write up on tubeless, I was unable. With many quite humorous one-liners back to me: some pertaining to it others just because it's Jacobi, all of which ended up being blog inappropriate. Sorry folks.

With that said, his write up on our Velotape will come soon but it dawned on me in the meantime: why attempt to write some thing that experts and trusted testers have already said. Who else to turn to than the 29er guru himself, Guitar Ted. I was able to find over at TwentyNineInches.com a series of posts that he made last year concerning tubeless and 'What you need to know'. Enjoy.

Going Tubeless: What You Need To Know- Why Tubeless?
July 6th, 2009 by Guitar Ted

The tubeless tire discussion really can not begin until we cover the “why” of the tubeless tire choice for cycling. While it may seem obvious to some, this may enlighten a few first timers and there may be a few surprises along the way.

First of all, the cyclists worst enemy is a flat tire. Nothing ruins a rides flow like a flat tire. Tubeless tires can puncture, rip, and leak, of course- so does a tubeless tire help in regards to the flat tire problem? Is it worth setting up your tires tubeless for this reason?

The short answer? Yes! Tubeless tires, while vulnerable to flatting, are far less likely to flat, and if you use sealant in them, they are even less likely to lose all the air in your tires. Here is why: A tube in a conventional tire is not part of the tire casing, obviously. Because of this, the tire casing can pinch the tube between it and your rim edge, or “bead”. This can happen when you strike an object hard enough that the force applied overcomes the pressure in the tube to withstand that force, allowing the tire carcass to pinch the tube against the rim. This is commonly referred to as a “snake bite” due to the usual pattern of two punctures on each rim bead directly across from each other which reminded someone of a snake’s bite, thus the name.

A tubeless tire has no tube, so nothing to pinch against the rim means no pinch flats……usually! One still can pinch the sidewall against the rim beads, but this is very unusual.

But what about punctures? Well, this is where sealant comes in. Sealant- some substance that seals punctures and seals up non-UST tire carcasses so they can be air tight, is a product that comes in many forms. Usually some form of latex sealant is most popular, however glycol based sealants are also somewhat popular for cycling. At any rate, the sealant seals up punctures, small tears, and holes….sometimes…and allows you to finish out the ride.

So, sealant combined with a tubeless tire greatly reduces the chances for flat tires. This is perhaps the single most popular reason for average mountain bikers to run tubeless tires, but there are other benefits.

Tubeless tires, since they do not pinch flat very easily, can be run at slightly lower pressures, enhancing traction. Also, since there is no tube to cause rolling resistance, this makes lower pressures even more attractive. A tubeless tire run at a slightly lower pressure than a tubed tire can get better grip, ride smoother, and have similar or less rolling resistance than the tubed tire. Reduce the pressure on the tubed tire to match and generally you will increase the likely hood of a pinch flat and greatly increase the rolling resistance.

Weight was an early reasoning for going tubeless, but this is not necessarily the number one priority of off road cyclists. Tubed tires, if the tire is a very lightweight folding type, can weigh less by far than a similar model that is tubeless. The extra butyl rubber necessary to make the casing air tight is the culprit. Now days though, there are a vast number of cyclists who convert standard tires to tubeless use by way of sealant. This has met with varying degrees of success and should be approached with caution. We’ll cover a few of the techniques used to do this in a later post. At any rate, tubed tire to tubeless tire weights are very similar these days, especially with conversions to tubeless type set ups.

To recap- Tubeless tires are a great way to avoid flat tires, get better performance characteristics, and may save some weight over a standard tube and tire set up.

_

For more on Guitar Ted's series on 'Going Tubeless' here are a few links:

Going Tubeless: How to

Going Tubeless: Day to Day

Going Tubeless: Questions and Answers

Going Tubeless: The Future

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims: Mid-Term Update! [from Guitar Ted]

It's looking like a P35 kind of week. Yesterday we shared with you the release of our new Velotape for the P35, along with a review done by Brain at Gram Light Bikes. Today, Guitar Ted posted over on TwentyNineInches.com his Mid-Term review on the P35 wheelset, below I've posted most of it here but be sure to check it all out in it's entirety over at his site. If you're looking for another honest review of the P35's check out this months newest Dirt Rag Magazine.

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims: Mid-Term Update!

Well, this has been a long time coming, but here is the Mid-Term update on Velocity’s P-35 rims and wheel set that I have been riding for about six months now. If you want a refresher on the wheel set, you can check out the Out Of The Box post which will give you all the data on the rims and hubs. Let’s take a look at what I have found so far with the P-35 rims and also with these wheels as a whole……..

The P-35 rims really stretch out the foot print of your tires!

I’ve been riding these with the Soul Cycles Dillinger Gen III frame during the test.

The P-35 Rims: First, let’s focus on what the rims do and don’t do for you. As stated in the Out Of The Box post, the P-35 in 29″er size is listed at a sub 600 gram weight. I didn’t get to weigh these specific rims, since the wheels were built at Velocity’s U.S.A. facility in Grand Rapids, Michigan, but suffice it to say, they do not feel heavy, or all that hard to spin up. These are definitely a lighter weight rim than the other wide rims out there. Does it sacrifice lateral stiffness? Well, so much of that is how a wheel is built, the tensions used, and what have you, but to my feel, these are definitely not quite “Gordo” stiff. That isn’t to say they are not acceptable, or even good. Actually, they are quite nice in this area, but the Gordo’s I have, (first production run), are definitely a stiffer rim. All but the heavier riders will think P-35’s are stiff though. I would rate them at above average for sure. Keep in mind- A stiffer rim will most likely weigh more too, unless it is carbon fiber, but that’s another story. You want the ultimate in wide and stiff? I would point you to the MTX-33, but it weighs 750 grams too. See what I mean?

For most folks, the P-35 is going to be just peachy. The combination of the width, weight, and stiffness is a pretty nice one for average trail riding and probably up to light All Mountain pursuits. Could you XC race this rim? Well…..yes, of course you could, but there are lighter weight choices that make more sense for that sort of thing.

What else does the P-35 rim do? Well, it really puts more tire down on the trail, just like any wide rim does in this class. I was really surprised when I was able to mount the Ardent 2.4″ tires tubeless and run them at about 15psi on packed snow machine trails. The rims put so much tire on the packed snow that I could ride for miles as long as the surface had been traveled heavily by the snow going vehicles before me. This isn’t to say that I had a “fat bike”, but in a pinch, you could really do fairly well on these rims with the right tires on packed snow. The fun continued on dirt as well. I was really noticing the way the Ardent’s were gripping the trail, and I was still running fairly low pressures in the low 20’s. Yes, you have more rolling resistance, but the traction you get in certain situations with certain tires will be amazing. Keep in mind, not all tires will get better on a P-35. Some will actually perform worse, so remember that in your experimenting. I would recommend sticking to 2.35 tires and wider, but don’t let that stop you from checking something else out.

The Wheel Set: The wheels as a whole are actually pretty dang impressive as well. The wheels bearings were impressively smooth and free running when I received them. They have remained that way despite my attempts at snow riding, mud riding, and commuting in less than ideal situations with them. No play has developed during the test period, and I have had no issues at all with them. The spokes and nipples have also been doing their job, keeping everything running straight and true throughout the first half of the year. Some may lament the fact that the front hub is not convertible to 15QR or 9mm QR, but I know that I would rather have a beefy front rim on a more aggressive rig, so the 20mm through axle is the way to go for me. (Front hubs are available in standard quick release if so desired) Also, it is worth noting that Velocity used the “old school” threaded free wheel style hub interface for the rear hub. Of course, we have White Industries free wheels to fall back on, thankfully! But that may put you off if you have a stash of several cassette based single speed cogs.

Note: Twenty Nine Inches received this wheel set at no charge for test and review. We are not being bribed or paid for the review here and we will stive to give our honest opinions throughout.

Put that in your Trap

If you haven't made your way over to Urban Velo to check out the newly released May 2010 issue, I highly recommend it. We advertised again with them and this time decided to highlight the new Bottle Trap.

As we've mentioned in the past, we developed the Bottle Trap to replace the Velocage after the machine used to make them continued to break down. It was a sad day to see that decision be made since the Velocage had been with us from the beginning. We were adamant about whatever we decided to replace it with needed to be just as versatile, strong and light as it's predecessor.

The design of the Bottle Trap went beyond our expectations, after getting the prototypes we were blown away with how well they held a bottle in place. And truth be told, it was when we were taking product shots that it was discovered the massive array of containers that fit in it. The Bottle Trap truly allows you to pick your poison for 'hydration'. With a price between $6-$8, depending on your shop, the cost to weight ratio [29 grams], the Bottle Trap is hard to argue against.

In the months since it's release, the Bottle Trap as gotten a number of great reviews/recommendations from across the spectrum of riders:

'I've actually used these cages and they grip your bottle with authority! I highly doubt you will lose a bottle on a rough gravel road using one of these composite/plastic cages'

_ Guitar Ted, TwentyNineInches.com & TransIowa Founder

'I know I want one!'

_ Prolly is not Probably

'The Bottle Trap seem very minimal in the base area that holds the bottle. No wasted material needed. They seemed pretty lightweight to me right away as well so I set them on the scale to compare them to my carbon cages. The Velocity Bottle Traps came in at 30g each which is identical to the Profile Design Karbon Kages '

_ Carl Buchanan, Velo Syndikat


Jeff at Urban Velo did a little write up on them yesterday and to read all of Prolly's thoughts go here. More importantly, go to your local bicycle shop and ask for the Bottle Trap. If they do not stock them, your local shop can order them through most distributors or directly from us.

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims: First Impressions [from Guitar Ted]

A little while back we sent the 29er guru, Guitar Ted, some of the P35's to check out, ride and review. Over on his site TwentyNineInches.com, he posted this today:

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims: First Impressions

January 31st, 2010 by Guitar Ted

The Velocity P-35 rims are one of the wider rims now available for 29″er freaks to use. The wheel set that we are testing here was built up on Velocity’s hubs at Velocity U.S.A. in Grand Rapids, Michigan. You can catch up with the details here. This post will touch on the finishing touches to the wheel set and introduce the bike we are testing the wheels on. (Which will have its own test write up coming soon)

I set the Velocity P-35’s up with these 2.4″ Ardent tires we are testing and they are tubeless. The P-35 has the effect of stretching out the casing by about a millimeter over a more common 28mm wide rim with the effect of a slight flattening out of the tire profile in the process. This does two things over a narrower rim: It puts more tread on the trail without running lower pressures and it also brings the tire beads out wider, more underneath the tire tread edge, which gives the tire more support, especially under lateral loads.

In regards to tubeless set up, I used a home brew rim strip which worked beautifully on the P-35. Velocity does not recommend you do yours this way, but would rather see users going with a 32mm Stan’s tape or in the future, use the system they are developing for the P-35. That said, setting up these rims tubeless was a snap. Very easily done, and the bead seat works very well in terms of getting a good tire/rim interface. The Ardents set up on these with a short blast from my air compressor and have been trouble free so far.

Note: The Ardent by Maxxis is not a tubeless tire and running it as such is done at your own risk. Twenty Nine Inches does not recommend running your Ardent tires as such.

For disc brake rotors I set up the Velocity hubs with these Ashima rotors with which I have had good performance from in the past. I used a 185mm up front and a 160mm rotor out back with Avid BB-7 mountain calipers doing the squeezing here. I spun on a ACS Claws 18T free wheel for a rear gear. That wrapped up the set of wheels as complete units, ready to ride, and riding was done, even though it is very cold and snowy here.

Here are the wheels on the bike they will be tested with. A Soul Cycles Dillinger Gen III frame. The set up with a Rock Shox Reba Team with a 20mm Maxle Lite is pretty fun to ride, but I’ll get into that when we introduce the Dillinger a bit later. For now, I’ll focus on the wheels.

The tubeless set up had a bit of a hiccup due to a poor rear tire, (Not a 2.4 inch Ardent), but after matching the front with another 2.4″ Ardent, things have been trouble free. The amazing hub bearings spin really freely, reminiscent of the Easton XC-One single speed wheels we tested last year. The wheels have been noise free, and laterally pretty stiff. With rock hard frozen ice chunks, ruts, and some off camber bits that I could find, I have not been able to discern any lateral flex. When the trails become ride-able, I will put this to the test better in situations at speed.

So far the P-35’s seem as if they should be, at the very least, decent and on par with the Gordo from Salsa Cycles. This will be the inevitable comparison product, as there are no commonly distributed rims in this range out there. Yes- There is a Kris Holm branded rim, but it is quite a bit rarer. My next update will not be for a while yet until the trails open up and I can get these properly ridden. Stay tuned!

Note: These products were provided to Twenty Nine Inches at no charge for reviewing. We are not being paid or bribed for this review. We will give our honest opinion or thoughts through out.

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims- Out Of The Box

Over the weekend, a nice little out of the box thoughts on the P35 was posted over at Twenty Nine Inches.com by Guitar Ted. We're sold on them and we're sure he'll be once he gets some ride time on them! Enjoy:

Velocity Wheelset: P-35 Rims- Out Of The Box
January 10th, 2010 by Guitar Ted

I remember waaay back as a kid the old Pontiac ads that touted the “Widetrack” stance of their cars at the time. Better stability on the road, they said. Well, that reminds me a whole bunch of the new P-35 rims from Velocity. Wide stance rims give the tires a wider foot print and better grip and stability out on the trail. So the theory goes. That is what I aim to test out on these wheels over the next weeks and months.

But first, let’s take a closer look at what we have here. The Velocity products in this wheel not only include the rims, but also Velocity’s newest version of their hubs. When choosing a hub set for this test, I decided upon a 20mm through axle front and a single speed specific rear hub. The rear hub has a threaded drive side to accept a free wheel. The threaded hub is more a preference in my mind than an advantage or disadvantage. Either threaded or cassette works nicely for me. Moving on from that we have sealed cartridge bearings and the rear hub features a Hi/Lo flange arrangement. The bearings feel very smooth to the hand. The finish looks top notch. The rear hub goes at about 288 grams per Velocity’s site and the front 20mm through axle hub weighs in at approximately 250 grams. The hubs are laced to the P-35’s with DT Swiss Champion spokes using red alloy nipples. Hubs are available separately through any local bike shop. MSRP’s may vary according to the shop you use, but expect to pay about $90.00 for the front hub and about $100.00 for the single speed disc hub.

The hubs are laced by Velocity in house by their own wheel builders. Each wheel build is signed off on by the person who built it. A nice touch. By the way, Velocity will lace your hubs to rims at their Grand Rapids, Michigan facility should you have something you want laced to a Velocity rim. Just contact your local shop for more on that. The builds looked well done. Tensions were great, and everything looked in order.

The P-35 is a rim that was developed in tandem with Velocity by Kirk Pacenti. The rim is described by Velocity as follows: “The P35 is designed for the cross country/all mountain rider craving a laterally stiff yet weight conscious rim that is still tough enough for the occasional Super – D race.” Sounds like an all around use rim to me. And here are the specs on the rim again:
Outside Width: 35mm
Inside Width: 29.5mm
Depth: 22mm

Weight
29”: 595g

Pretty impressive for a 29″er rim. Lighter weight, and a wide inner rim well promise fat, fast tire performance. But will they hold up? That we shall see! As long as we’re on the subject of the rims, I will say that these are designed to be run tubeless. Velocity has decided that for the time being, a Stan’s strip will do for sealing the rim well. That said, they are still working on bringing their own rim strip to market. More details on that when they are released. These will definitely see tubeless usage during our tests. The rear hub attaches via Allen head bolts.

Now for the total weight of each wheel. The front came in at 1030 grams and the rear at 1160 grams. So, no lightweights here, but I figured these would be best suited to more aggressive type riding, and the weight doesn’t bother me in that regard. One has to figure that rims weighing nearly 600 grams each are not going to build up the lightest wheel set!

In the next update I will detail out the finishing touches to this wheel set and hopefully introduce the bike they are going on. Stay tuned!

Note: The reviewed products were provided to Twenty Nine Inches at no charge for review. I was not paid or bribed for this review. I will give/gave my honest opinion or thoughts through out.

Oh-1-Oh

As we all begin to awaken from the haze that was another 4-day weekend; getting back into the swing of the 5-day work week along with the realization that we are still, in fact, in the same decade. We, like so many, are looking forward to the coming year with great expectation: from the A23 rim/wheel set to the new reflective powder coating, which is only the tip of the iceberg. We have a lot in store for the coming year and can't wait to show it off!

The Grand Rapids New Years Day ride went on without a hitch. Ryan and Jacobi made it out and from all reports had a great time. Depending on which one of them you ask, it was a few short of the 100 riders the Founders guys were hoping for... either 50 or 70 riders. Some pictures from the ride will be up later this week.

A few things to put on your radar, for all you commuter/bike polo nuts, Amy Walker over at Momentum magazine has a little write up on the popular Chukker rim in their latest edition [which is available for free download, and shown to the right]. Also over the holiday I was able to pass on a P35 wheel set for review over to Guitar Ted and the Twenty Nine Inches / The Cyclist Site Laboratories. It's no secret that we're extremely excited about these rims and look forward to hearing what the 29er guru has to say about them. [By the way nice looking trap, Ted!]